Top 20 DBZtard lies and misinformation(Final 3)

Part 1
Part 2


3) Variety of DBZ fanboy arugments
Here is some of the most retarded arguments from Fanboys that are often used to excuse the lack of feats from  their own series, this is a collection of arguments and tactics DBZtards do to apologize for their lack of feats.

A)Downplaying feats from opposing verse while wanking DBZ
Another constant argument from DBZtards is they're sheer hypocrisy when it comes to selecting feats and intentionally ignoring opposing verses feat because they deem it to be "Too comical".The irony and hypocrisy is strong with this one.

Ex: "The Living tribunal cant planet bust because we dont see him doing it."
1. Handbook stated he can aka Authors
2. He made a sun go supernova and solar system busted
3. He planet busted during Golden Age Dr.Strange comics
They will say "You dont have the feats." Because they butthurt they cant prove goku planet busting.

Why is it that this debate is revived time and again? Superman is utterly no match for *any* of the Dragonball characters beyond Nappa or Ginyu, depending on the incarnation. All "evidence" that is brought forward (such as Superman sneezing away a galaxy or something akin to that) is 1) Comical and meant humorously, which means that it does not count, 2) was only observed one isolated time only, as Superman is constantly re-incarnated depending on the writer and 3) is most certainly not on the power scale of Dragonball characters. Virus, the God of Destruction, Goku, Freeza, Cell... all of them where strong enough to destroy the entire Universe. (That was stated in the Japanese original. Quite from Kaiou: "Even the gods fear Freeza. Now that he has transformed, he is strong enough to destroy the entire Universe.".) DraculaCronqvist (talk) 23:19, July 13, 2013 (UTC)

Since we want to play this game , we can very easily  apply the same downplaying logic to DBZ with ease right  ?

1) Cell blowing up the Solar System is comical,especially given that he barely blew up a building sized Planet and no character aside from Fireza and Buu can planet bust and Beerus stated  that Goku in base was inferior to Namek Saga Fireza  and Kid Buu is 10 times  planet level, therefore no one is above planet level in DBZ.

2)Goku's speed feats are inconsistent to each other as well as DBZ in general.

Goku as a kid can easily move at hypersonic speeds and crossed the world in the Martial Arts tournament in less than a day swimming across the world .



Yet Goku at a much older and stronger state struggles to cross Snakeway in Six Months .There's also the varying inconsistencies in speed in general in DBZ.

3)This doesn't even need downplaying, it's flat out bullshit that any DBZ character can destroy the Universe and it's purely Hyperbole,especially given Beerus and Whis didn't fear Fireza at all and that's even at his strongest Golden form.Hell since we're being dicks here, Fireza's best feat in Revival of F was mere planet busting.

Goku is not planet level because he never busted a planet and needs SSJ3 just to blow up a Building sized planetiod

Fireza is barely planet level because he barely busted Namek

Cell isn't Solar System level because he was killed by an attack that didn't even blow up a planet.

Goku was killed by a Building sized explosion as a SSJ

Kid Buu is only 10 times planet level

GT Goku can barely lift building

Goku can only lift 40 tons

Goku took 3 weeks to get use to 10G's
,

B) Character a lost to Character B therefore Goku wins
Another common argument from DBZtards is the argument that Character A lost to Character B and intentionally low ball or downplay character B to make character A look weaker or look for a earlier, weaker villain in an attempt to downplay opposing characters strength while wanking Goku or any DBZ character.

This is done  often against Superman  vs battles with DBZ. DBZtard brings up that Wonder Woman beat him once or Doomsday beat him once and hence if they can do it, so can Goku. This is completely ignoring the fact Wonder Woman and Doomsday have feats on par with Superman and Superman's feats are enough to crush Goku badly.

C) Goku can beat character x because he  knows Martial Arts.
Another common argument from DBZtards is character A doesn't know martial arts  or  character A can be hurt by martial artists ,therefore can be easily defeated by Goku.

Pre-crisis Karate Kid can hurt Pre-crisis Superman So don't look down on Goku !
Pre-crisis Superman was beaten by Pre-crisis Karate Kid ! And he HURT that Superman with Karate .Compare to that , Goku is a trained Martial Artist with his own Super strength & Super Speed , therefore he doesn't need planet lifting strength to fight Superman.

This is ironically where DBZtards own logic fail spectacularly against them.Ignoring that Pre Crisis is non canon now and rectoned so you can't apply those feats to Post and New 52 Superman, you seem to intentionally ignore the fact that Pre Crisis Superman would curbstomp Goku.

Pre Crisis Superman tanked a Big Bang,   for Karate Kid to hurt him, going by powerscaling, he would need to punch at the force at least stronger than the Big Bang which means going by DBZtard logic, he's Universe level + and can rape Goku badly.

Also there's  his speed which  going by this is  63,072,000,000,000,000,000,000,000c or 63.072 Sepltion times the speed of light, Karate Kid by powerscaling would be this fast, more than enough to blitz Goku over Trillions of times in a second.

So ironically, you just  further show not only how dishonest you are but  how easily your argument can be turned against you and against your downplaying agenda.

Also this notion a character needs to be a Martial Artist just to be on par with Goku utterly fails largely due to the fact ,Fireza and Majin Buu, two of Goku's toughest villains lacked any Marital Arts skills and Gohan around the time of the Cell Games greatly surpassed Goku at that time despite not having anywhere near the skills of Goku. Not to mention Goku has lost to Vegeta  twice( Technically when he tuned into a giant ape and when he became Majin) despite Vegeta having less skill than him, lost to Tien who was around the same skill level and  lost to Roshi who was superior to him in skill at the time.

Either way this argument fails, the only way this would work as an argument is if Goku or any DBZ character were around the same level as said other character.

D) That doesn't count, character a needs(Insert power here) just to beat Goku/DBZ characters
One of the most common arguments DBZtards use is the argument that character A needs a power up to beat Goku.This is largely said by butthurt DBZtards who can't admit that character A can either hold their own with Goku or can curbstomp Goku and   have to try to downplay the opposing character in order to win.

For example here is a common DBZtard argument.
Also , Superman needs Sun for his power so if any DBZ character blow up the Sun then Superman is finished.


That's ignoring the fact Superman has flown through a Red Sun.



Tanked a nuke even under Kyrponite



Lifted the mass of Earth for 7 days strength while drained from the sun

Tanked a earth shattering fall from space

And absorbed Anti Sunlight that can obliterate a whole Galaxy.

This is just typical downplaying by DBZtards who have no real argument.Except has has lifted the mass of an entire planet without Solar Radiation so so much for you claim he can't lift a normal human.

As for Goku , If he realize Superman get his Power from the Sun then all he has to do is grad Superman and use Instate Transmission to go on a planet without any Sun therefore cutting off his Power source and make it a fair fight where Superman must use his remaining Solar energy to fight Goku.

And how is Goku going to do just that ?  You'r aware Superman would still get power from other stars unless it's a Red Sun.

However I like to remind all of you that the Sun didn't prevent Superman's death by Doomsday .


And  ?  This is a valid argument how  ?.Doomsday overwhelmed a full powered Superman, something Goku would never do.


Also Pre-crisis Superman lose his power on a environment similar to Kyptron. Base Vegeta train user 300 gravity to become a Super Saiyan however Super Saiyan Seem to immune from any gravitational field.

This is possibly one of the dumbest arguments you ever said. Krypton has 1,000 times Earth's gravity, Vegeta who only trained up to 500 times that gravity would struggle against that gravity.Also it was the red sun that negated his powers, not gravity retard.

Also that's possibly the dumbest thing you've said. Unless Sayains can casually withstand the gravity of a Neutron Star or Black holes, that argument holds no weight.It's just you being a retard who claims shit without fact checking.

At the end , Superman is nothing more then a cheater who need the Sun to power him up ! Cut him from the Sun and he weaker then a regular human

Oh noes, man this example couldn't sound anymore like butthurt. If anything you sound just as  arrogant and stupid as King Cold who thinks that Trunks couldn't of killed Fireza without his sword.

Superman wouldn't need the sun to beat Goku, you're just pathetic.Honestly DBZtards are some of the biggest,whiniest babies on the internet.


E)GOKU WOULD WIN CUS SAIYANS ARE WAYYYYYY STRONGER THAN HUMANS WITH SUPERPOWERS.
Yep this is a common argument by DBZtards.They assume because Goku is Sayain, he's  automatically superior to all humans in fiction.This is beyond a stupid argument as you can get really and shows the immense stupidity of DBZtards.

For example, Captain America from Marvel is Human yet can match Odin Force Thor and Hulk in combat  due to his immense skill and lethal martial arts.Hulk and Thor easily outmatch any DBZ characters.

Ben 10 , a human has the powers of many aliens ,can steal Sayain powers and has a near Omnipotent alien that would casually solo DBZ.

Then there are the Green Lanterns in general who outclass anything in DBZ at their full power given they're powers range from casual Solar System level to Universe level+

Kamjou Tomua,Flamma of the Right and top tiers of To Aru Index would also solo DBZ given they're on par with Galaxy to Universe level Archangels.

Captain Marvel who is Human would also solo DBZ.

I can go  about how arrogant this sounds to think just because humans can't match Goku in his universe, he can beat any other human in fiction.

E) Combat Speed Fallacy

The most often used  argument by DBZtards when based to a corner is the good ol Combat Speed Fallacy.The Combat Speed Fallacy is a dishonest and flawed argument used by DBZtards . The essence of the argument relies on trying to categorize every speed feat of the other side as "travel speed", "movement speed" or some other kind "non-combat speed". They will then proceed to claim all of those speed feats don't count and their favored character would speedblitz the opposition. This is fallacious for many reasons.

First of all, said wankers never give a consistent definition of "combat speed". Realistically, to fight at a certain speed requires no more than the following:

- The ability to move at that speed
- The ability to perceive an opponent moving at that speed
- The ability to react at that speed

So logically, demonstrating "travel speed" feats in combination with sensory and reaction/thought speed feats should be sufficient to establish a character's "combat speed". However, the trolls who use this argument almost never accept this, instead trying to define "combat speed" as something that can only be measured in combat, which is retarded.

So logically, demonstrating "travel speed" feats in combination with sensory and reaction/thought speed feats should be sufficient to establish a character's "combat speed". However, the trolls who use this argument almost never accept this, instead trying to define "combat speed" as something that can only be measured in combat, which is retarded.

Some of them then take this even farther, claiming that fights that cover large distances don't count as combat speed, but travel speed, as the combatants were traveling while fighting. A notable example of this kind of sophistry was when Phenomenol claimed that the instance where Wally West fought Zoom II all across the Earth multiple times in less than a second didn't count as combat speed, despite the fact that they were exchanging punches and attacks the whole time. Hilariously, he then went on to claim that Goku using IT to arrive at the island where Cell was fighting and saving his friends, then IT'ing back out before Cell could attack him, did count as combat speed, despite the fact that no actual combat occurred.

Another problem with the "combat only" definition of combat speed is that in a fight that does not cover significant distances, there is usually no indication of the actual speed the fighters are moving at. Barring narration saying something like "X moves his fists at the speed of light", "Y throws 1000 punches per second", or "Z strikes in less than a nanosecond", a visual depiction of a fight (especially in sequential art) is almost always unquantifiable. Further irony arrives from the fact that such narrations are the kind you would most likely find in a western comic book, as opposed to a manga or anime, which is the side the users of this fallacy usually support. This is why most calculations done for character speeds are based on feats against known variables (i.e. bullets or things falling due to gravity), not fights.

One might then wonder how the supporters of this argument quantify the "combat speed" of their favored characters. There are usually two tactics they use for this:

- They don't bother to quantify it at all, they just say it must be super fast because it's drawn with a lot of blurry lines and afterimages or the fact that background characters can't see the fight happening. When shown similar examples of blurry drawings, afterimages, and disappearing from sight from their opposition, they simply dismiss it with a line like "So what, Kid Goku was doing that at the beginning of Dragon Ball"

- They actually use (or attempt to use) quantifiable speed feats to determine the speed of their characters, and then assume they are using their absolute maximum speed during combat, while if a comic debater makes the same argument they ask him to prove the character was fighting at the same speed of his other feats.

As you can see, this whole line of reasoning is based on blatant hypocrisy and double standards.

But I'm just getting started:

There are many times when a character's "travel speed" feats apply equally for determining their "combat speed". Situations where characters are fighting while traveling have already been mentioned, but another scenario is where they are traveling through an area filled with obstacles. Obviously if they could not perceive and react at the speeds they travel at, they would be bumping into things all the time. Any character that runs around a planet or other large distance on the surface of a planet or moon should be given "combat speed" equivalent to their travel speed by default, due to having to see and dodge all of the obstacles in their way. Wankers who use this fallacy never accept this, though.

Another way for a character with only high demonstrated "travel speed" to be considered high in "combat speed" is that character's senses. Heralds of Galactus, for example, are often stated and shown to sense things at FTL speeds over vast distances, often described in terms like "being able to sense a single dust mote from another galaxy". Obviously a character with senses on this level will have no problem detecting and countering an opponent attacking at comparable speed to their own.

Even if we were to accept that a character can't perceive or react anywhere near as fast as they can physically move (and this is rarely true of any characters in fiction), the character with the faster movement speed still has the advantage. This can be demonstrated as follows:

Say Character A has a movement speed and combat speed of 1,000, and Character B has a movement speed of 1,000,000 but a combat speed of only 100. There are still many winning strategies for Character B, for example, bumrushing Character A at maximum speed. If Character A can't get out of the way in time, then he's dead (assuming Character B has the power to hurt him). Even if Character A manages to dodge, Character B can simply continue on his path until he has reached a safe distance from Character A, then re-aim and try again. Eventually he's bound to land a hit.

Another strategy would be attempting to grab one of Character A's limbs, this might take a while but once it is done, Character B can use his superior speed to take Character A with him into a dangerous place (outer space, a star, etc.). If the speed is high enough, Character B might even be able to rip off Character A's limb. In addition, a character that has one of more of their limbs immobilized cannot escape or dodge effectively, thus negating the "combat speed" difference.


2)Brolywank

One of the most infamous examples of DBZtardism is the infamous Brolywankers and Brolytards.They are  perhaps the dumbest  DBZ fanboys in existence, especially  since they use  some of the dumbest arguments ever to wank a character who is just Mid Tier at best in DBZ.

A) Broly is a Galaxy Buster
This is one of the best examples of DBZtard stupidity and dishonesty and clear examples of their fanboyism i've ever seen from them. This fails for a variety of reasons as i've shown before in the past whenever this argument is brought up.

1)Subs debunk the myth of Broly's Galaxy busting
The Japanese subs never stated he busted a Galaxy but attacked one.This can be further shown by the fact  that the entire film takes place in the very South Galaxy  Broly "destroyed"

2) Cell is much stronger than Broly and yet can't come close to Galaxy busting

Given Broly is weaker than Prefect Cell  and Prefect Cell is weaker than Super Prefect Cell who can  blow up an entire Solar System with a full powered Kamehameha Wave.  When you consider Broly at least is only Super Vegeta level in terms of power and up to Suppressed Prefect Cell at  best.best. Broly is easily 100 times weaker than the power needed to blow up the Solar System  going by powerscale alone.


3) Broly has shown no feat that puts him even close to that level of power

If we powerscaling Broly to Super Vegeta, going by Super Vegeta's output i've shown on my former DA accounts post. Super Vegeta's output is only 1.03 Tenakilotons . to equal the yield of a Supernova, you need 23.9 Tenakiliotons.Because Goku's Kamehameha is later shown doing the same to Cell and it's stated that Goku at this point was stronger than Vegeta by a significant margin. If Vegeta's Final Flash did around 1.037 Tenakilotons, Goku's was easily 10.37 Tenakiliotons while Cell who was only using half of his power fighting Goku can gather up as much as 20.74 Tenakilotons, which just falls shy of the 23.9 Tenakilotons needed to make a Supernova ,however given Super Prefect Cell is 10 times stronger than ever thanks to Zenkai therefore Super Prefect Cell would have up to 207.4 Tenakilotons or 8.67 Foe, the bare minimum needed to Solar System bust is 5.709 Foe. In other words, going by powerscaling and feats, Cell is basically a Solar System buster.


To put into context, in other to blow up the Milky Way Galaxy, you would need the energy equivalent of  100 Peta Foe or the force of 100 Quadrillion Supernovas.Broly's power level doesn't even match 1/20th of the power of a Supernova.


Likewise, Kid Buu himself needed 3 -5 years just to Galaxy bust. Kid Buu's  yield was 22 Mega Foe or well over 507 Million times the power output of Broly.Kid Buu's power level and output are 1/19,200,000,000 th the output needed to blow  up our Galaxy.

4)Broly would not survive even one Supernova

Going by Movie 10, Broly is nowhere near the durablity to surrive a Supernova level attack and  this can be factored by the sheer engery of the Kamehaha Wave pushing Broly into the sun. Broly did not surrive this attack at all.

Radius of the sun(At least  10%):347px(: 69,580 km )
Exploison that killed Broly:694 px ( 139,160 km)

Penerative Beam length: 93,000,000 miles + the diameter of the sun( 864,938 miles/1.392 million km)
Beam Length;10 feet
Attack speed:   20 seconds to the sun( 25 c )
Density of the sun:1.41 g/cm^3 mean density
                             Interior (center of the Sun)160 g/cm^3.
Cubic mile=4,168,181,825,000,000 cubic centimeters
5,877,136,373,250,000 g/cubic mile=12,953,794,078,135.33 lbs/cubic mile
                                                          5,888,088,217,334.242 Kilograms/cubic mile   mean
                                                          668,151,854,449,275.7 Kilograms/cubic mile center
 Volume potentially destroyed:45,668,726,400 Cubic miles
                                               190,355,555,000 cubic kilometers
Depth of the Core: 25% the diameter and mass of the sun
 Core volume destoryed: 11,417,181,600 cubic miles
                                        47,588,888,750 cubic km
Surface volume destroyed:34,251,544,800 cubic miles
                                         143,376,966,532.8  cubic km
Surface volume area destoryed:8.442162272789056e+23 kg
Core volume desotryed:3.179660426949277e+25 kg
Now for the engery using the E=mc² formula
E=x
M=8.442162272789056e+23 kg
     3.179660426949277e+25 kg
c² = 89,875,517,800,000,000 mtr²/sec²

X=25 c  
452.133 Tenatons Low end (2.75 times the GBE of the Sun)
17.015 Tenakilotons High End (  103.63 times the GBE of the Sun     )                                  

Power of Bros Kamehama Wave :452.133 Tenatons Low end
                                                     17.015 Tenakilotons High End

5)  Broly has nowhere near the speed  or power needed to  Galaxy bust overtime even if he only blew up Planets and Stars.

Note Broly in the movie only turned LSSJ within the fighting against the Z fighters, consider this factor when retarded fanboys  claim  "Broly can Galaxy bust in base form".  Broly in LSSJ at best is about as fast as Super Vegeta and mind you the alleged feat apparently happened in base state.

Given Vegeta's max speed Cell Saga was 14.5 Million c as Super Vegeta,  base Broly be be at least around 725,000 c.  It's  faster than his spaceship, however, nowhere near fast enough to cover every square inch of a Galaxy.  A Sayian Spaceship goes up to  3 light years per hour,that's a speed of  12,101 times the speed of light. Note a Sayain Spaceship can cross 26,000 lightyears in a year.

The Milky Way is about 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 km  and 1.e+30sq km or 1 Nonillion sq km.  In other words the Milky Way Galaxy is roughly 10,000,000,000 square Lightyears. Broly's speed in  base would take   to cross the entire distance of the Milky Way Galaxy and that's if Broly  moves around the whole Galaxy at top speed  without eating,sleeping or taking breaks nor the amount of time it would take to evade.

Given Broly has nowhere near the range or power to blow up a whole Galaxy in one shot, we have to determine how long it would take him to blow up each star in the Galaxy by covering over 1,557,851.23 light years per year in base which might seem alone and can cross a galaxy  10 times in a year, however that's only in length, not square miles.

Let's try  at LSSJ this time.  Broly can cross 31,157,024.6   sq lightyears per year .  For Broly to potentially blow up every star in the Mlikly Way Galaxy, it is required for him to  live over 320 years and fly around nonstop blowing stuff up nonstop without any energy being wasted and that's at his maximum form. In base state, he needs to travel over 6,400 years nonstop.

Now this is where we get to the true debunking of this bullshit.Mind you our Sun doesn't even compare to much larger stars within our Galaxy at all.  Do i need to remind you how  much power Broly has shown.

But the biggest star in the Universe is thought to be the monstrous VY Canis Majoris. This red hyper-giant star is thought to be 1,800 times the size of the Sun. This star would almost touch the orbit of Saturn if it were in our Solar System.

The most natural approach to me is to consider what would happen if, somehow, our Sun was magically and instantaneous swapped with VY Canis Majoris.

The result, in a word, is death. Complete and total death. Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, the million tiny worlds of the main asteroid belt, and even Jupiter - all gone. Jupiter, in fact, would find itself about 70 million miles below the surface of the star. It has a
GBE  of  VY Canis Majoris =3 Kilo FoeVY Canis Majoris.

And then there are  stars as immensely  tiny yet  have  gravity well over 300 Billion times the gravity of Earth since as the insanely powerful Neutron Star.


GBE of a Neutron Star - 7.612 Kilofoe
452.133 Tenatons Low end (2.75 times the GBE of the Sun)
17.015 Tenakilotons High End (  103.63 times the GBE of the Sun     )      
     
Needless to say,even with a higher output, Broly is not Galaxy busting  unless he can destroy sun's thousands of times larger than our own let alone Neutron Stars.Even our sun alone Broly would struggle to bust it.

6)  Beerus>>>>>>>>Every DBZ villan
Beerus usually uses his power to destroy planets,[6] but he is strong enough to destroy entire solar systems with ease (as said by King Kai, who described Beerus' energy as like a 'freight train') and can even destroy entire galaxies, although this is enough to severely tire him out.

Beerus> Every other villain within the entire DB series and not even Beerus is said to be a Universe buster, hell he gets tired out from busting Galaxies.There is  over 200 Billion Galaxies within the Universe, if Beerus gets tired out from blowing up just a few Galaxies, he's not even 1/100,000,000,000th as strong enough to Universe bust.
E = mc 2

M= 8,353,800,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ( Mass of a average star )

c² = 89,875,517,800,000,000 mtr²/sec²

X= 120,000,000,000 c (Times the Speed of Light)

Overall energy=3.838840854366955e+58 Joules

9.1750498431e+40 megaton  or 90.1 Peta Foe  (90% the GBE of the Mlikly Way Galaxy)

And this is considering Beerus only using 70% of his power if we consider this is the potential energy of Beerus (Personally i think Beerus was using only 6% of his power given post training Goku and Vegeta Revival of F were still not on his level) Either way let's consider that powerscaling.

Beerus Maximum output=128.57 Peta Foe( 128% the GBE of Milky Way Galaxy) Low End( Battle of Gods )
Beerus Maximum output=1.5 Exa Foe ( 15 times the GBE of Milky Way Galaxy) High End(Battle of Gods )

So  roughly in the range Toryiama's  official statements state that Beerus is around up to Galaxy level, potentially up to Multi Galaxy level.

So when we take this into account  that Goku is a 6 compared to Beerus 10,Goku would only have about 60% of Beerus power in SSJG and SSJG2 forms, we can powerscale to Goku's Super Goldy Kamehameha Wave

Goku Maximum output=76.8 Peta Foe( 76.8% the GBE of Milky Way Galaxy) Low End  ( Battle of Gods SSJG)

Goku  Maximum output=900 Peta Foe ( 9 times the GBE of Milky Way Galaxy) High End (Battle of Gods SSJG 2)

So Broly at best is anywhere between Star level and Large Star level.Nowhere near Solar System level or  Galaxy level.

We'll get to the Bros Kamehameha wave and Broly's movie 10 power level shortly, let's tackle another massive lie/misconception of Broly's power level.

B) Broly is Prefect Cell/Super Prefect Cell level
Many Brolytards claim Broly is at least as strong as Prefect Cell or Super Prefect level,however  re-watching the movies again, it doesn't seem to support the case here.

Possibility  A)Cell was killed by Android 16  and Tien before  he can absorb 17. Piccolo and 17 along with Tien and 18 and Imperfect Cell dies. Super Vegeta and Trunks end they're training prematurely after hearing the news of this, however Goku and Gohan still trained for the spot of it, however achieved nowhere near the same power they did against Cell.

Possibility B) Cell was allowed to achieve Semi Prefect State however  Vegeta bloodlusted was able to easily destroy Semi Prefect Cell,  Android 18 was deactivated .  Goku and Gohan achieve  halfway around their power level within that timeline however can't fully master their SSJ form due to time constraints.

Possibility C) Vegeta  does stupidity  try to allow Semi Prefect Cell to  obtain prefect form.  Trunks goes all out and overpowers Vegeta  in their struggle  and then proceeds to easily kill Semi Prefect Cell, Android 16 and Android 18
Evidence supporting this claim

Possibility C)  Gohan's hair is much shorter than it is when he went  into the chamber and he looks older,this supports the theory that Gohan and Goku were only half as strong as they were in the Cell Games because the part Gohan achieves SSJ is around the time Cell achieves Prefect form.

Broly's power level: Going by what is shown in the movie, it's easily above Imperfect Cell and Semi Prefect, to what extend varies by scenario.
.
Possibility  A)Broly would only be  as strong as Super Vegeta, supported by the fact Trunks and Vegeta haven't  achieved a fully ascended super sayain.


Possibility  B and C)  Broly is easily stronger than Super Vegeta and Super Trunks and stronger than Super Goku and basic SSJ Gohan, however as seen with Cell suppressing his power and still overwhelming even Ultra Super Sayain Trunks in both speed and power, Cell is still way stronger than Broly.Especially when you consider the factor that Gohan and Goku's training was abruptly interrupted with the death of Semi Prefect Cell.

So going by this and  this video, this disproves that Broly is  as strong as fans want him to be.Cell is never mentioned at all in this movie, in fact it's  well assumed Cell was dead around this movie and considering there was no SSJ2, it's highly unlikely he ever achieved prefect form. Also considering Gohan was the weakest in the movie compared to everyone else( Next to Piccolo who notably hasn't trained in the Hyperbolic time chamber either),  it's very unlikely that Broly was much stronger than Super Vegeta, at best he's  around Suppressed Prefect Cell to Super Trunks level which is far below the power level of a full powered Prefect Cell.

Another thing that contradicts Brolys power level being Prefect Cell is the fact while Trunks and Vegeta have trained, they don't use their ascended SSJ forms at any point of the movie which deeply contradicts the idea this is even before the Semi prefect Cell fight. This outs them Mid Roast level at best.

C) Broly has infinite Ki and gets unlimted strength like the Hulk
This is possibly one of the most common retarded arguments we seen from Brolytards,especially those who think Broly can fight stronger fictional characters.  Yep  this argument is used to  claim Broly can beat anyone from Majin Buu to Beerus and from Hulk to One Above All and it's a very shitty argument.

First of all, there is no such thing as infinite ki. Even the so called "unlimited" ki the Androids have limits as it can never  exceed their programmed level of power. Hence why Android 18  never got much stronger than when she was back when she was frist introduced and mind you androids vastly out pace  that of natural creatures and humans in stamina. Case and point, Cell has the unlimited energy of both 18 and 17 and yet was tried out after exerting himself to a certain during his battle with Goku.

Also if  DBZtards were honest ,they would've seen that Broly's power was overflowing, not 'rising", as in he can barely control the output of his power, hence why he has to unleash his power to the point of exceeding critical mass.

In fact if you recall from the Fireza Saga,  Vegeta mentions the legendary Super Sayain had so much power that he couldn't control said power and he ended up killing himself because of  the lack of control of it.  Broly seems to be going through the same thing here.

It should be noted that the Legendary Super Sayain form is 50 times stronger than the power of a normal Super Sayain, this can be seen with the face  that in Movie  10, base Gohan can match a weakened normal SSJ Broly however was being considerably overpowered  when he turned LSSJ. This is also a notable factor regarding how LSSJ4 Broly can overpower both SSJ4 Goku and SSJ4 Vegeta easily but more on that later.

This is supported by the fact that Goku within SSJ form  was on par SSJ Broly but outmatched by LSSJ Broly and not even the combined might of SSJ Gohan, Piccolo, SSJ Trunks, SSJ Vegeta and SSJ Goku.

Note Goku needed to combine his power to outmatch Broly by borrowing the ki of his friends Note that all his friends powers boosted him to the point he was able to double Broly's power and beat him.If Broly's power  really did increase by large amounts, then not even a full powered SSJ punch would protect him.  

But let's play devils advocate and claim that  Broly's power can increase every 5 minutes by 2 times each, that's far too slow of a power increase to really deal with anyone of any real threat to Broly.

But let's  pretend Broly really does have unlimited Ki, he would need a full 30 minutes just to boost his power level to surpass even base Prefect Cell with a growth rate of power at just 2 times for every 5 minutes.  He would need  a mere hour just to surpass Super Prefect Cell in power. It would take him a full day  of charging up just to match Fat Majin Buu,  over a year of charging to match the power level of Super Buu,  a full decade just to match Kid Buu in power and 40,000,000 years before he even reaches Beerus level. Needless to say, it's fucking absurd to even think Broly can even match Prefect Cell let alone Hulk in power increase.I know DBZ is infamous for characters for just standing there and letting them power up but  this is ridiculous.

Let's  assume even more ridiculous estimates and assume Broly gets stronger every minute by 2 times. It would take him 6 minutes to reach the league of Prefect Cell, 12 minutes to match  Super Prefect Cell,  around 5 hours to match Fat Majin Buu, 72 days   to match the output of Super Buu, 2 years to match Kid Buu and over  8,000,000 years  just to keep up with Beerus.

Hell let's get even more outlandish and assume Broly gets stronger every second by 2 times. It would take him 6 seconds to match Prefect Cell, 12 seconds to match Super Prefect Cell, 5 minutes to reach Fat Buu's level, 1 day and 5 hours to reach Super Buu's level, 12.16 days to reach Kid Buu's level and 133,333 years to reach Beerus.

Let's  assume Ki overflow for a minute now. Remember Tien's fight with Nappa  ?  Tien who had a power level of  1,798  was clearly outmatched against Nappa and couldn't put a scratch on him, yet  when he did his Neo Tir Beam, he almost killed Nappa with a power level of 4,000, meaning  that Tien around tripled his ki to the point he died from the shock of overuse.

Let's  assume even higher end given Sayains are tougher than humans, Goku using the Kaioken x3 power was doing extreme stress to his body. Repeated use plus x4 nearly killed Goku. At best i can see Broly surviving up to at least a 20 fold power increase, before exploding from the over-pressure.  But lets use science to determine the case of my argument.

The average Human body can withstand about 50 PSI blast pressure meaning sudden impact. As far as sustained pressure the human body can withstand as much as 400 PSI providing it is gradually increased to this amount.

Given when Z characters power up, they become easily much stronger!  When they increase their power, and immense amount of air pressure is associated with regards to them powering up to the point that  rocks and buildings shatter from the sheer weight of air pressure.

Given we can't  determine the PSI of Z characters, we'll instead use their maximum output. Broly's output is at least up to 452.133 Tenatons. At best Broly can only  survive up to a power increase of 180.853 Tenakilotons or  7.56 Supernovas before his body explodes from over-pressure as established by the fact he can barely contain his ki.

In other words Broly's power at  around 1 hour going by the 5 minutes=2x power thing would cause Broly to explode and die,  20 minutes if we go by  1 minute=2x power and 12 seconds if we go by 1 second=2x power

This is also assuming everyone would be stupid enough to just let Broly charge up his ki.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBSmysMy6zI
Given Broly was  fighting within the movie for a  full   30 minutes  and  didn't visibility get stronger( Goku who got twice as strong as LSS4 Broly was able to easily one shot Broly with a punch), it's safe to assume that Broly increasing his Ki and getting much stronger while fighting is a myth made by Brolytards.  Even assuming Broly did get stronger in battle everytime he's in LSSJ, the  power level increase means jackshit given that power pales in comparison to the power increases  from far stronger characters.


Not to mention the fact that none of the characters were even SSJ's when they gave Goku their powers.  Mind you in the Lord Slug Movie, Piccolo gave Goku at least 4 times as much power he needed to make Kaiokenx100 when he could only go up to Kaiokenx25 or known as False Super Sayain.

Note while Trunks and Vegeta are notably weaker than they are at the Prefect Cell Saga, they're still at least around Android Saga level SSJ power levels in base which is below Piccolo fused with Kami, presumably the same with Gohan as well. Given  SSJ only makes Goku 50 times stronger plus the energy gained by  even weakened base states, Goku at best would've gotten a 10 fold power increase. Note that even with that combined power, it's inferior to even a Cell Jr . Overall Broly is nowhere near strong enough and doesn't increase his power nearly enough or strong enough to challenge anyone far stronger than them.

Hell let's contrast that to the Hulk, you know the guy Broly is always is compared to ?
Hulk goes from matching the likes of Thor in a fight ( A being that can solo the DBZverse ) to overpowering Onslaught  who outclassed Juggernaut's full power with ease and took out most of the powerful Marvel characters.  Broly is nothing compared to Hulk.Broly isn't even a cheap imitation of the Hulk, he's just an insect by comparison

D) Broly got Zenkai within Movie 10

One of the most common misconception DBZ fans and lies DBZtard's spew is the fact that Broly got a Zenkai in Movie 10. However this is  a outright myth given Broly was shown to never healed from his injury and in fact got frozen in ice. I doubt that's going to heal any wounds.






It has been stated and shown that unless a Sayain heals from his injuries, he can't get a Zenkai boost.Vegeta himself noted that, which makes sense,  a near death injury is going to drain your ki drastically, unless you heal fully, you're going to be drastically weaker than your previous peak power.If Goku  came to  fight Fireza early instead of recover in the healing tanks, he would've been utterly destroyed by Fireza's first form alone let alone push Fireza into using 50% of his power.

Note Borly's injury was  visible throughout the 10th movie. This alone debunks he got stronger within Movie 10,combine that with the fact he was frozen in Ice for  years  and he would've gotten much weaker,especially given his muscles have been weakened due to inactivity, the fact he would starving for  4 years straight.

Also note in the movie, his opposition was Gohan, Goten and Trunks, none of them as strong as Cell Games characters,especially with a severely rusty Gohan who got much weaker than he was in the Cell Games. In fact Gohan was actually training to return to his original power  around the timeline of the movie.

First let's start with Goten and Trunks, Goten and Trunks Pre ROAST were only half as powerful as Android 18, they are stronger than when Vegeta and Future Trunks originally  were. While that's immensely powerful,  note Imprefect Cell with many humans absorbed curbstomped both Piccolo and Android 17 and that power pales compare to Semi Prefect Cell.

Note Gohan in base form was able to hold his own evenly with SSJ Broly even though the former hasn't training within 7 years and is severely rusty. Hell Gohan could barely maintain SSJ at that state.Mind you Broly  had trouble with Goten and Trunks in SSJ state while he was a Super Sayain, that puts Broly in SSJ at least Android 18's level. In other words, Broly became much weaker.

Note that even mid ROAST characters can still easily curbstomp 17 and 18 even if they're training wasn't 100% complete. Broly as a SSJ  was able to hold his own with SSJ's back in Movie 8 that would still wipe the floor with the Androids easily, yet in Movie 10,Broly  has grown so weak that he has trouble with base Gohan,SSJ Gotenk and Trunks  while in SSJ.  This puts Broly only at Semi Prefect Cell level in LSSJ which is a massive downgrade in power given Broly was at least Super Vegeta Post ROAST level.  

To add insult to injury,Gohan was vastly weaker than when he fought Dabura , hence  this is a greater blow to the argument that Broly has become stronger. Goten and Trunks while strong were inferior to Piccolo in power and despite Piccolo being near Prefect Cell level, he was one shotted by Dabura himself.Gohan despite being rusty  was still able to keep up with him.

To make matters worse,  Pui Pui alone can potentially match even Broly at his prime given he's stated to be only  5 times weaker than  Dabura. Mind you Dabura even holding back was Prefect Cell level at full power, that puts Pui Pui at least Prefect Cell suppressed power or around as strong as Super Vegeta. Yes a fuckboy like him can potentially beat Broly at his best let alone  a weakened Broly.

In fact could Broly even survive 10 G's  ? Like Goku, he never grew up on Planet Vegeta and at no point was it ever implied he can withstand 10 G's.  Vegeta who was shaking in his boots in Movie 8 would be raping Broly the same way he did to Pui Pui if this was Buu Saga Vegeta. Eitherway the claim Broly would be a threat to any Buu Saga character when even Mid ROAST characters can beat him is laughable


E) Broly in LSS4 can beat Beerus and SSJ4 Gogeta
One of the most recent examples of Broly Wank comes from Dragon Ball Heros in which Broly somehow survives the sun from Movie 10 and was given LSSJ4 thanks to the Black Smoke Dragon. It's shown in the trailer that he was stronger than SSJ 4 Goku and SSJ4 Vegeta. However given  Broly can still be stopped by  the likes  of Note and he wasn't able to fully outclass SSJ3's and SSJ4 Goku and SSJ4 Vegeta like he did to Mid ROAST characters who couldn't even stop Broly in movie 8 .

So Broly at best would only be twice as strong as Shadow Dragon Saga SSJ4 Goku and Vegeta, which while powerful,they pale in comparison to Syn Shenron who alone is at least 10 times stronger than an un amped SSJ4 Goku  let alone Omega Shenron and Omega Shenron is proven to be nothing compared to Beerus or whis.

After all going by the scaling of DBZ, we get at least this
250 Quntillion=Whis estimated full power
166 Qunntilion= Beerus estimated full power
100 Quntillion=Golden Fireza/ SSJG 2 Goku and Vegeta
10 Quntillion=SSJ4 Gogeta/ SSJG Goku battle of Z/ Bereus using"70%" of his power
5 Quntillion=  God Essence False Super Sayain Vegeta and Goku
1 Qunttilion= Omega Shenorn
100 Qaudrillion= SSJ Vegito's power/SSJ4 Goku
12 Qaudrillion= Buuhan's strongest power level
1.2 Qaudrillion= Kid Buu's strongest power level
1.2 Tirllion = Super Prefect Cell's estimate power
120,000,000 =Fireza's  maximum power( Namek Saga)

Going by this graph(Which doesn't  factor Zenaki or Mupitlers) Broly in LSSJ 4 would be at least 200 Qaurdrillion.His power is vastly overestimated going by the DB heros trailer.He's much stronger but the gap between him and his opponents is not nearly as wide as Movie 8 in which no one could even slow Broly down.



1)Goku is the strongest character in fiction EVARZ

Of course the most  common argument from DBZtards is Goku being the strongest fictional character ever because "LOL planebusters".This is probably cheating to some extent but this is the most common place argument i've seen from  DBZtards.  Goku is seriously not even in the Top 500 list of strongest fictional character via ability nor even a High Tier in fiction.

At best Goku is only Galaxy to Muilt Galaxy level, which is around the baseline powerlevels of most Marvel and DC  Superheros like Superman and Thor. However both Thor and Superman's maximum power and potential far exceeded anything in the DBZverse.

Here are the common arguments used by DBZtards.

Goku can destroy planets with his Kamehameha. I doubt any other fictional can destroy planets with anything. Character A may be strong and all, but Goku would win by a landslide.

LOL! This is  logic you expect from DBZtards who never  seen any other anime or fictional series.There are at least 530 confirmed Planet or Plantaery level characters in fiction with hundereds of more impiled planet busters .DBZ holds no monopoly on Planet Busting at all. There are at least 298  confirmed Solar System to Galaxy level characters in fiction and hundereds movie ,these 298 characters can match the top tiers of DBZ in a fight.There are over 255 causal Galaxy busters to Universe busters within fiction and hunderds more, these characters would easily match Beerus and Whis in base power and solo the DBZverse at full power.

And then come the Universe busters, there are at leas 200 of them in fiction alone and they range from casual Universe busters to potential Multiverse busters. There are 176 Multiverse busters who can ascend to Omiverse level, and there are  10 true gods who have no eqaul in fiction, these people vastly suprass Billions of Multiverse which each contain 10^500 Universes.


If DBZ were to be compared to other verses, at best it would be a Mid tier verse.At best, the strongest DBZ character would only compare to the base power of more powerful Marvel and DC heroes such as Hulk,Thor, Superman and Wonder Woman, a full powered version of all those characters destory the DBZverse with utter ease. Demi Gods such as Galatcus Odin,Zesu and Domaramu can crush DBZ top tiers with one finger and beings like Prescence, One Above All,Living Tribunal and  Spectre.

Anime Verses like Saint Seyia and Sailor Moon also outclass DBZ with it's high and top tiers with Saint Seyia Top tiers and God tiers surpassing Sailor Moon  as a whole . Verses like Gurren Larrgan and JJBA would easily destroy a DBZ top tier with little effort.  Verses such as

Goku has an insatiable desire to excel and progress in fighting

And  ?  You act as if he's the only character who enjoys  fighting! Clearly, you're not read anything that wasn't  DBZ .


its been stated that Goku has always been focused on just improving and nothing else. even his family takes a backseat to his fighting.

And?That proves nothing, that proves Goku is an idiot and  thinks about nothing mroe than fighting and it  kinda limits him as a hero when you look into context.

a Saiyans strength doubles/increases every time they are close to death/lose a battle. therefore Goku will never hit a Limit

That's what we call the No Limt Fallacy.Frist of all ,Goku's Znekai increases his power up to 10x as seen with him going from barely handling Ginyu without Kaioken to him matching base Final Form Fireza.Second of all, it does have a limit, unless Goku fully heals from his injuries, he would not become stronger at all. There's also the factor that he needs to get his ass handed to him as well.Unlike Cell who can compensate damage with regeneration and get an instant Zenkai boost, Goku can't do that at all.

Theoretically Goku has no limits on how much his Zenkai can increase his power but that's in theory. In practice, it's a non factor. Superman and Thor at their best alone are  still well over 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ,000 ,000,000,000,000 times stronger than Goku at his absolute strongest .

To give you  a clue  of how powerful this form is. Goku can  fuse with his GT counterpart   who  fused with the Dragon Balls and trained for 100 years who is fused with Vegeta and use Portata to fuse SSJG Vegito and Gogeta together and the end result would still be  only 1/10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000th the power of Golden Superman or Rune King Thor and those characters still pale in comparison to gods like Spectre and Living Tribunal who control Billions of Multiverses on  their own
Hell just for  Goku to become this strong just to match Superman's full power without fusions, Goku would have to train at least 78,5019,999,090 years just to match the power of  the fusion of SSJ4 Gogeta and SSJG Vegito  who trained for 100 years straight.  

That's over 5.6 times the age of the Universe. Needless to say Goku is not immortal and given it took 15 years of training to boost his power back 400 times from the Buu Saga in GT, his power increase without fusion is beyond the range of ever matching Superman on his own in his lifetime.  With Zenkai being a factor, this lessens the time to around 7.8 Billion years, which is still light years beyond Goku's age.  


However let's humor the fact that  every day Goku  fights a villain that pushes him to the limits within his fight and he gets Zenkai for every day for over 100 years It would  take  Goku over  215,073 years just to reach the level of  SSJ4 Gogeta and SSJG Vegito  who trained for 100 years straight who can match a full power Superman and Thor. Even with Hyperbolic time chamber that makes every year a day, it would still require Goku to train and fight non stop every day against an opponent  for 589 years,2 months , 27 days, 18 hours ,  5 minutes and  7 seconds.

Now let's try this with every hour Goku fights someone who pushes him to  the limit and he does this for every day for over 100 years in the Hyperbolic time chamber. It would take him about 24 years before he reaches the level of Superman or Thor at their full power base.Goku's power would never  exceed or match that of Superman and Thor at their absolute strongest let alone surpass them or any fictional character.
And this is just with two characters in Marvel and DC. I can name plenty of anime characters who  just as easily outclass Goku in power, not limited to Saint Seyia,Bastard,JJBA or even Sailor Moon.


Now, with all this knowledge, who would win? well none of this stuff matters, because, as some of you may have noticed, I left a little something out. Just a small deciding factor....THE DRAGONBALLS!!!!!! Yup, because the simple fact of the matter is, Goku has already died, TWICE! (as has superman) but even forgetting all that, he could just wish for something that would handicap superman. Note that Porunga is more powerful than shenron, and as a result his only limitations are whether or not he wants to grant the wish.

goku is an eternal dragon. he is ETERNAL.


Dragon Balls:

Shenron's powers are limited by the wielder of his powers like Kami for insistence. Kami who  at most is only Moon level can't expand beyond the realms of his powers. Kami can't restore an entire planet( Hence why the Namekians where instead relocated to a new Namek like planet) He can't kill a Planet Buster and a Small Planet buster( Hence why he couldn't kill people like Nappa or Vegeta)  so yeah they're limited to only  Moon level power. The Namekian Dragon Balls are much stronger and can bring back a planet at most but that's about it.

Silver Crystal:

The Silver Crystal on the other hand can effortlessly revive entire planets of people, easily restore planets, repair star systems and  even destroy or restore an entire galaxy. The Silver Crystal doesn't take a year to be used again, it has little drawbacks aside from the user's skill and experience and energy level to use it  but the powers of the Silver Crystal can be whatever the user wield it to be.

You seriously think you're petty pet dragon even remotely compares to Sailor Moon's Silver Crystal?  The Silver Crystal would effortlessly wipe out Fireza's army and the Fireza Family with a single thought,  it has the power at it's weakest to easily destroy planets and stars. The Sayains wouldn't even be around if they used the Silver Crystal instead of the Dragon Balls. It's laughable that you would even compare the Dragon Balls to the Silver Crystal.


You would have to scale the level of power in Dragonball way down. It would not merge into a DC universe /Marvel Verse or any verse, they're jsut too strong.

DBZ would never  surpass all of fiction, the sheer level of power of top tiers is beyond comprehension. Even  just catching up to Sailor Moon alone would  require power far beyond that of what they're currently able to achieve.  The absurdity that DBZ would be anything more a mere warm up for Mid Tiers in Marvel and DC is  like  claiming Naruto can defeat all DBZ and Sailor Moon characters with utter ease.


Goku is but a mere speck in the DC and Marvel Universe. In fact power alone means nothing in either DC or Marvel.  Even a well trained human with a Adaminatim or Virabumn weapon can easily defeat the strongest DBZ character


So spare me the hyperbole DBZtards. At Goku's rate of power, he's never going to surpass Superman.  The gap in power between Superman and Goku is as wide as the gap in power between Naruto and Goku.  Naruto is a strong Shonen protangist but the tier and gap is far too wider to challenge anything less than the weakest state of Goku.Goku in the case of Superman vs Goku is like Naruto  and Superman is like Goku.

Another nice list of facts bring played here.

Beyonder wrote:Another nice list of facts bring played here.

Thanks

No problem lol.